Color Me Cultured - The Great Gatsby - Part 2



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 The Great Gatsby hits theaters on Friday so here is the final installment of our book club responses.

Contributing to the book club discussion this time is Pat, my mother, Sue, my mother-in-law, Katie C, my sister-in-law, Katie G of Dream Till Green and our in-house literary expert, Meredith.

The gals answered 4 questions last week which you can read here: Color Me Cultured - The Great Gatsby - Part 1

I know a few bloggers out there are reading the book right now (Sara and The Everygirl) so I've put in a jump break so you don't have your opinions spoiled. But please come back and answer these questions for us too so we know what you think!

Q5: Think about the two worlds, the Midwest and the East, as Fitzgerald describes them, and what they represent for Nick and for Gatsby. Compare and contrast Gatsby's social class with that of Tom and Daisy Buchanan. How does geography contribute to the definition of social class in The Great Gatsby?

Pat: Midwest : more grounded, thoughtful, East Coast: Racy, Rich. Nick had Midwest as base to work from East Coast as stepping stone toward goals while Gatsby's Midwest was world of no future to be forgotten, East Coast was his land of dreams. The social class Tom & Daisy is traditional with a house bought by Family Money. Gatsby's more flashy even though he is rich and he seems empty and longing to fit in with the East Egg money. Basically geography = social class.

Sue: East Egg and West Egg represent the two social classes.  Nick and Gatsby live  in the less fashionable West Egg, while Tom and Daisy live in the most affluent East Egg.  Gatsby does everything he can to impress Daisy with his affluence (the house, the parties, the cars, the shirts), but he will always be from the West Egg, and consequently never good enough for her.  As the story is told, you see that he was brought up in a poor family, and even though he acquired a lot of money,he can never attain the status of the East Egg. Daisy's husband Tom is from the affluent East Egg, but he is having an affair with a woman from the West Egg...I think this demonstrates his selfishness in wanting to have it all, and really not caring that he is cheating on Daisy.

Katie G: I think we're supposed to feel that Gatsby's social class is more elite than Tom and Daisy's. How can the Midwest ever be so fabulous as the East Coast? (I think that's what Fitzgerald was implying). The Midwest is full of farms whereas the East Coast has the water, the big cities, the cars, etc. I think once you make it, you're supposed to go to the East Coast...in this book anyway.

Meredith: Gatsby's fortune is self made where as Tom and Daisy are from old money.  They have no known no other way than wealth and all of its implications where as Gatsby has seen all different forms of wealth.  Tom and Daisy are respected wealth because it is generational whereas Gatsby's wealth is flighty and considered to not be dependable given its infancy.  Just as New York was a respected area of wealth and prosperity, the Midwest is considered second best the place for life.  Wealth in the Midwest is second best to wealth in the east, in fact a wealthy person in the Midwest would likely be considered poor in the East.

Erin: East Egg vs West Egg - west is where Gatsby (a poser) and Nick (a tag-a-long) live. They are close to the wealth and prominence of East Egg but still not a part of it. Fitzgerald makes it seem like anyone in the Midwest is dying to get to the East to prove their lot. If you're not interested in going East you're a simpleton.

Q6: Has your opinion of Jay Gatsby changed since the beginning of the novel?

Pat: by the end of the novel my opinion changed to seeing him as a lost soul, a ghost, a nonentity.

Sue: My opinion of Gatsby changes to one of pity by the end of the book.  I think he truly loved Daisy and she did not really love him...and he realized that no matter what he did or what he acquired, he could not be with her.  He still fooled himself that she loved him, but she and Tom left town and never looked back.... leaving tragedy and death in their wake.

Katie C: My opinion of Gatsby shifted several times. In the beginning, intrigued. Who is this guy? He seems lonely, with many acquaintances, but wealthy, and poses the question of whether wealth really guarantees happiness. Then we sort of feel bad for him after witnessing that super awkward scene at Nicks house when he reunites with Daisy... how is he SO socially awkward? But he's so in love, and it's sort of notebook-esque, like when Ryan Gosling spends every waking hour on that house for Rachel McAdams, in the hope that she will find him again... but not as endearing. More creepy. And then watching him with Daisy, in front of Tom (as horrible as Tom is), you just think, "he's as bad as the rest of them." I liked Gatsby better when he was a mystery.

Katie G: My opinion only changed to the put that I think he's a little crazy. Once I figured out that he's had this grand scheme for awhile, I think he is in fact a little twisted. But a part of me thinks that if you're searching for the love of your life again, you'd do something similar.

Meredith: In the beginning I was intrigued, now I have nothing but pity.  Pity for his final position in life and pity that he never got what he truly wanted and strove for in life.  Sadly the only silver lining is that before his unpleasant ending it seems Gatsby came to terms with his position in Daisy's life.

Erin: Yes, it has sunk. At the beginning he seemed like a guy that wanted to be a part of the social scene and contribute to the party season but by the end of the novel I find him cowardly, unintelligent and totally self involved.

Q7: What is the American Dream? How does Gatsby represent this dream? Has the American dream changed since Gatsby's time?

Pat: The American Dream is to be able to achieve whatever you can dream. Gatsby believed in dreams, even lost dreams and he represents the dream in the book. I think the American Dream still exists but is tempered by reality, economy, race and gender still play a factor.

Sue: The American Dream in this story is to have a lot of money and live a very happy life with a big house, fancy cars, etc.  This book was written in a time shortly after the War, and I think the entire society was ready to forget the dark days of sacrifice and the tragedy of war, and ready to focus on acquiring "things" that made them feel rich.  This American dream of having a house and cars, etc remains today.  However, I am starting to see the upcoming generations focusing on living a simpler life that is more focused on a loving family and giving back to society and less focused on the size of their house.

Katie G: I took a course in college where we discussed the American Dream for two weeks and let me tell you, the fact of the matter is that the American Dream is different for everyone. I think as a society, we accept the thought that the Dream is to be successful in what we want to do. I think Gatsby shows that dreams can come true. Yes, there's tragedy in his dream, but there's always going to be some rough patches in the path of attaining your dreams. I think the American Dream is still the same today as it was in Gatsby time. There's still people throwing their money away for big parties, elaborate houses, impeccable clothes. It's all about working toward being successful at attaining your dreams no matter who you are or what background you come from.

Meredith: Gatsby has everything, and the money to buy anything else he might need.  Written before the great depression, Fitzgerald captures the extravagance of the twenties, where there was no fear of failure or losing your money.  Given that today we are coming out of the second worst economic time, after the Great Depression which shortly followed the story of Gatsby I would have to say that the American Dream is not nearly as elegant  and is more centered on finding value in what we already have, keeping our homes and establishing some sort of future for ourselves.  The characters in Gatsby still represent an anomaly to the people of America today.  

Erin: I think Gatsby demonstrates the romanticised American Dream. The "true" American Dream (if it exists anymore) is to be able to create a better life for yourself and your family through hard work. Everyone always wants a "Get Rich Quick" scheme but forgets that the American Dream is about the effort, dedication and entrepreneurship. But, Gatsby was happy living his version because it wasn't about a better life for him... it was about getting Daisy.

Q8: What do you think gives this book its longevity? What makes "The Great Gatsby" a classic work of fiction?

Pat: Maybe because it has an unclear, mysterious character . It invites you to picture a time that seems " real" , romanticizing it. It has a lot of elements. Love, tragedy, yet nothing concrete. Each emotion was at like 80%. I think it's interesting that this was offered as part of Junior Year in High School... How did the teenage mind react to this?

Sue: I think this is a classic work of fiction because it is a tragic story that addresses the myths about the classes in our society. There have always been classes in our society...classes based on wealth, color, religion.  This story illustrates how true happiness is not based on your class, and that the acquisition of wealth will not necessarily make you happy.

Katie C: It is a beautifully written book, and I definitely didn't appreciate that when I was forced to read it in 8th grade. While its short, its deep...and these questions are great, and I am still pondering the meaning of it all... especially after realizing that these people are my age. Its just gives me a very different perspective. This book is a page turner... and not the Jodi Picoult page turner that you can read while an SVU marathon is playing in the background, either.  You really have to hang on every word, and every sentence... which just makes the story that much more memorable and exciting.

Katie G: I think the Great Gatsby has longevity because Fitzgerald did an amazing job developing all the characters and story lines. Yes, the writing structure can get a little confusing at times, but it's an amazing story. It has poor and rich people, parties, booze, love affairs, New York City, crazy people, a puppy, nice cars, etc. There's also a lot of symbolism in this book that teachers love to teach. I remember the first time I read this book in high school and I thought it was more of a chore to read, but now I love it. You can literally take a month to read this book if you wanted to figure out what everything stands for. It's a classic work of fiction because it's fake. I love how, in at least my version, that is points out all of the mistakes Fitzgerald makes in his writing of this book. Not all the geography is right and the grammar is pretty bad as well. But, I think the best part is that every type of person can fantasize about being in this book and living there lives. That's how you know a book is good and it will stand the ages of time.

Meredith: I think a lot of people can relate to loving someone as much as Gatsby loves Daisy, and holding on to lost opportunity.  I think we can all think of a time when we didn't speak up to keep someone we love in our lives or when our circumstance prevented us from feeling as though we deserve the love we received.  Add in the pomp and circumstance of the rich and famous (which is a concept that while ever evolving stands the test of time as well).  There is also the love hate relationship of the antihero who you want to cheer for but also who has questionable moral character of his own, given how he goes about trying to win back Daisy.

Erin: Fitzgerald wrote The Great Gatsby in a way where we, as the reader, through Nick the narrator had to fill in some of the blanks of each character. This makes the characters real to us and forces us to relate them to real people in our lives. When I read this 10 years ago in high school (okay, when I read the cliff notes version) I related the characters differently. Now that I've read it again there is a depth of each personality that I didn't know before. I plan to read it again in a few years and reflect back on how my opinion has yet again changed.

So, have you read The Great Gatsby with us? If you have, or if you remember from high school, let us know what you think!

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